Log shipping with clustering

We would like to implement 2 node active-passive clustering coupled
with log shipping. Clustering is for high availability and log
shipping for DR purpose. Do we have any white papers for this kind of
setup? Is it possible to host the log shiiping secondary database on
the inactive cluster server? Thouigh it doesn't server the DR purpose,
we are exploring all different methods. Please share your ideas
barbara wrote:
> We would like to implement 2 node active-passive clustering coupled
> with log shipping. Clustering is for high availability and log
> shipping for DR purpose. Do we have any white papers for this kind of
> setup?
SQL Server 2000 Failover Clustering
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../failclus.mspx
How to setup Log Shipping
http://support.microsoft.com/support...ppingFinal.asp
SQL Server Resource Kit (Part 4 is dedicated to Hig Availability)
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...s/default.mspx
SQL Server High Availability Resources
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinf...ailability.asp

> Is it possible to host the log shiiping secondary database on
> the inactive cluster server?
Yes, you can setup a stand-alone istance and ship one (or more) clustered
database to this istance but is preferable to setup an external box for log
shipping purpose

> Thouigh it doesn't server the DR purpose,
> we are exploring all different methods. Please share your ideas
Log Shipping can increase high availabilty because it reduce the time to
became operational when a disaster on primary server happen. In particular
Clustering
- high level of fault tolerance
- automatic failure
- high cost
Log shipping
- manual failure
- scale out (you can use secondary server as read-only server)
- low cost
Clustering increase the availability but Log Shipping reduce down-time if a
failure occur
Bye
Luca Bianchi
Microsoft MVP - SQL Server
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
http://italy.mvps.org
|||Luca,
Thanks for the info. I've looked at all these articles before. If I
create standby on same server as cluser node (business doesn't want to
spend on another server), how do I failover to this? How does the
client connects to
standby? What name does it uses because the cluster node also exists
on the same server.
"Luca Bianchi" <rightjoinREMOVE_THIS@.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2qajjjFs3b8qU1@.uni-berlin.de>...
> barbara wrote:
> SQL Server 2000 Failover Clustering
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../failclus.mspx
> How to setup Log Shipping
> http://support.microsoft.com/support...ppingFinal.asp
> SQL Server Resource Kit (Part 4 is dedicated to Hig Availability)
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...s/default.mspx
> SQL Server High Availability Resources
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinf...ailability.asp
>
> Yes, you can setup a stand-alone istance and ship one (or more) clustered
> database to this istance but is preferable to setup an external box for log
> shipping purpose
>
> Log Shipping can increase high availabilty because it reduce the time to
> became operational when a disaster on primary server happen. In particular
> Clustering
> - high level of fault tolerance
> - automatic failure
> - high cost
> Log shipping
> - manual failure
> - scale out (you can use secondary server as read-only server)
> - low cost
> Clustering increase the availability but Log Shipping reduce down-time if a
> failure occur
> Bye
|||I am confused? What would you gain in availability by log shipping to
another cluster node? I would log ship to another (possibly lower
performing) server in another location. Copying data in a tight circle
won't really gain anything in availability, which is the real goal here.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"barbara" <barbara_2003@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cd01256.0409091029.5a87adcc@.posting.google.c om...
> Luca,
> Thanks for the info. I've looked at all these articles before. If I
> create standby on same server as cluser node (business doesn't want to
> spend on another server), how do I failover to this? How does the
> client connects to
> standby? What name does it uses because the cluster node also exists
> on the same server.
>
> "Luca Bianchi" <rightjoinREMOVE_THIS@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2qajjjFs3b8qU1@.uni-berlin.de>...[vbcol=seagreen]
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../failclus.mspx[vbcol=seagreen]
http://support.microsoft.com/support...ppingFinal.asp[vbcol=seagreen]
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...s/default.mspx[vbcol=seagreen]
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinf...ailability.asp[vbcol=seagreen]
clustered[vbcol=seagreen]
log[vbcol=seagreen]
particular[vbcol=seagreen]
if a[vbcol=seagreen]
|||"Geoff N. Hiten" <SRDBA@.Careerbuilder.com> wrote in message
news:epFRtxplEHA.2968@.TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> I am confused? What would you gain in availability by log shipping to
> another cluster node? I would log ship to another (possibly lower
> performing) server in another location. Copying data in a tight circle
> won't really gain anything in availability, which is the real goal here.
>
Actually I can think of a case.... physical disk corruption.
We have a DB where one block of data on teh disk has a bad CRC. This
prevents backups, etc.
We didn't realize the extent of the problem until too late so a restore from
a recent backup is not possible.
In this situation, something like what barbara's proposing might have been
very useful to us.
Having said that, log-shipping to a different machine is even better.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> --
> Geoff N. Hiten
> Microsoft SQL Server MVP
> Senior Database Administrator
> Careerbuilder.com
> I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
> www.sqlpass.org
> "barbara" <barbara_2003@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5cd01256.0409091029.5a87adcc@.posting.google.c om...
> news:<2qajjjFs3b8qU1@.uni-berlin.de>...
of
>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/pro.../failclus.mspx
>
http://support.microsoft.com/support...ppingFinal.asp
>
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...s/default.mspx[vbcol=seagreen]
> http://www.microsoft.com/sql/techinf...ailability.asp
> clustered
for[vbcol=seagreen]
> log
to
> particular
> if a
>
|||barbara wrote:
> Luca,
> Thanks for the info. I've looked at all these articles before. If I
> create standby on same server as cluser node (business doesn't want to
> spend on another server), how do I failover to this? How does the
> client connects to
> standby? What name does it uses because the cluster node also exists
> on the same server.
I agree completely with Geoff and Greg about their consideration. High
Availability has a cost. If you don't consider it, probably you don't need a
cluster solution.
By the way you have to refer to the clustered instance with its VIRTUAL
SERVER NAME that is different by the name of two node machine. The stand
alone instance could be referred by the traditional host name.
Imagine that you have a clustered node called NODE1 and the other node
called NODE2 (either with its own IP address). When you setup a clustered
(at operating system level) you have to assign, for the clustered, one
VIRTUAL SERVER NAME and one VIRTUAL IP ADDRESS (of the same class of both
node). When you install the virtual server instance of SQL Server you have
to provide another VIRTUAL SERVER NAME and another VIRTUAL IP ADDRESS for
SQL Server.
For example
The machine that form the cluster are:
NODE1 (10.0.0.1)
NODE2 (10.0.0.2)
When you create a clustered at Windows 2000/2003 level you can assign the
following name and ip address to the virtual server
W2KCLUSTER (10.0.0.3)
And then you setup SQL Server in a clustered instance creating a new virtual
server name with its virtual ip address
SQLCLUSTER (10.0.0.4)
If you install a stand-alone instance on NODE1 you can refer to the
clustered instance with the clustered instance name (that could be run on
NODE1 or NODE2) using its name or ip address (SQLCLUSTER or 10.0.0.4). If
you would connect to the stand alone instance you can connect to it without
considering the virtual server name but using NODE1.
Bye
Luca Bianchi
Microsoft MVP - SQL Server
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
http://italy.mvps.org
|||Thanks for the good explanation. How do we change the client
configuration to point clients from SQLCLUSTER to node1? Oracle uses
LDAP/ONAMES for name resolution which is easier to change. Do we have
any for sql server? Is DNS name change is only option available? How
does it take care of caching at client level?
"Luca Bianchi" <rightjoinREMOVE_THIS@.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2qd1hrFueik4U1@.uni-berlin.de>...
> barbara wrote:
> I agree completely with Geoff and Greg about their consideration. High
> Availability has a cost. If you don't consider it, probably you don't need a
> cluster solution.
> By the way you have to refer to the clustered instance with its VIRTUAL
> SERVER NAME that is different by the name of two node machine. The stand
> alone instance could be referred by the traditional host name.
> Imagine that you have a clustered node called NODE1 and the other node
> called NODE2 (either with its own IP address). When you setup a clustered
> (at operating system level) you have to assign, for the clustered, one
> VIRTUAL SERVER NAME and one VIRTUAL IP ADDRESS (of the same class of both
> node). When you install the virtual server instance of SQL Server you have
> to provide another VIRTUAL SERVER NAME and another VIRTUAL IP ADDRESS for
> SQL Server.
> For example
> The machine that form the cluster are:
> NODE1 (10.0.0.1)
> NODE2 (10.0.0.2)
> When you create a clustered at Windows 2000/2003 level you can assign the
> following name and ip address to the virtual server
> W2KCLUSTER (10.0.0.3)
> And then you setup SQL Server in a clustered instance creating a new virtual
> server name with its virtual ip address
> SQLCLUSTER (10.0.0.4)
> If you install a stand-alone instance on NODE1 you can refer to the
> clustered instance with the clustered instance name (that could be run on
> NODE1 or NODE2) using its name or ip address (SQLCLUSTER or 10.0.0.4). If
> you would connect to the stand alone instance you can connect to it without
> considering the virtual server name but using NODE1.
> Bye
|||Currently there is no automagic client redirection. You can handle this in
a variety of ways. You can put the server portion of the conneciotn string
in a registry entry or an XML document and push changes otu to all the
clients. You can do a DNS alias redirect, but as you noted, there is the
client caching issue. This is one reason clustering is so useful. The
clients reconnect using the same connection string after a failover.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"barbara" <barbara_2003@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cd01256.0409100354.23e1b6a4@.posting.google.c om...
> Thanks for the good explanation. How do we change the client
> configuration to point clients from SQLCLUSTER to node1? Oracle uses
> LDAP/ONAMES for name resolution which is easier to change. Do we have
> any for sql server? Is DNS name change is only option available? How
> does it take care of caching at client level?
>
> "Luca Bianchi" <rightjoinREMOVE_THIS@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2qd1hrFueik4U1@.uni-berlin.de>...[vbcol=seagreen]
need a[vbcol=seagreen]
clustered[vbcol=seagreen]
both[vbcol=seagreen]
have[vbcol=seagreen]
for[vbcol=seagreen]
the[vbcol=seagreen]
virtual[vbcol=seagreen]
on[vbcol=seagreen]
If[vbcol=seagreen]
without[vbcol=seagreen]
|||That's the beauty of clustering. The client doesn't have to do anything,
except reconnect. The virtual server name and IP are both moved to the
other node. The client doesn't reference the node directly - only through
the virtual name and IP.
Tom
Thomas A. Moreau, BSc, PhD, MCSE, MCDBA
SQL Server MVP
Columnist, SQL Server Professional
Toronto, ON Canada
www.pinnaclepublishing.com/sql
"barbara" <barbara_2003@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cd01256.0409100354.23e1b6a4@.posting.google.c om...
Thanks for the good explanation. How do we change the client
configuration to point clients from SQLCLUSTER to node1? Oracle uses
LDAP/ONAMES for name resolution which is easier to change. Do we have
any for sql server? Is DNS name change is only option available? How
does it take care of caching at client level?
"Luca Bianchi" <rightjoinREMOVE_THIS@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<2qd1hrFueik4U1@.uni-berlin.de>...
> barbara wrote:
> I agree completely with Geoff and Greg about their consideration. High
> Availability has a cost. If you don't consider it, probably you don't need
a
> cluster solution.
> By the way you have to refer to the clustered instance with its VIRTUAL
> SERVER NAME that is different by the name of two node machine. The stand
> alone instance could be referred by the traditional host name.
> Imagine that you have a clustered node called NODE1 and the other node
> called NODE2 (either with its own IP address). When you setup a clustered
> (at operating system level) you have to assign, for the clustered, one
> VIRTUAL SERVER NAME and one VIRTUAL IP ADDRESS (of the same class of both
> node). When you install the virtual server instance of SQL Server you have
> to provide another VIRTUAL SERVER NAME and another VIRTUAL IP ADDRESS for
> SQL Server.
> For example
> The machine that form the cluster are:
> NODE1 (10.0.0.1)
> NODE2 (10.0.0.2)
> When you create a clustered at Windows 2000/2003 level you can assign the
> following name and ip address to the virtual server
> W2KCLUSTER (10.0.0.3)
> And then you setup SQL Server in a clustered instance creating a new
virtual
> server name with its virtual ip address
> SQLCLUSTER (10.0.0.4)
> If you install a stand-alone instance on NODE1 you can refer to the
> clustered instance with the clustered instance name (that could be run on
> NODE1 or NODE2) using its name or ip address (SQLCLUSTER or 10.0.0.4). If
> you would connect to the stand alone instance you can connect to it
without
> considering the virtual server name but using NODE1.
> Bye
|||Does microsoft know this problem? In enterprise environment, it is
very hard to push the DNS change to all clients. When they offer log
shipping, there should be an easy way for client redirection. I feel
this is is the biggest
drawback with sql server. How do you push XML or registry to all
clients? Do we need to have list of all clinet machine IPs?
Any other ideas in this subject is well appreciated.
Thanks
"Geoff N. Hiten" <SRDBA@.Careerbuilder.com> wrote in message news:<O6i6nwzlEHA.3608@.TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...[vbcol=seagreen]
> Currently there is no automagic client redirection. You can handle this in
> a variety of ways. You can put the server portion of the conneciotn string
> in a registry entry or an XML document and push changes otu to all the
> clients. You can do a DNS alias redirect, but as you noted, there is the
> client caching issue. This is one reason clustering is so useful. The
> clients reconnect using the same connection string after a failover.
> --
> Geoff N. Hiten
> Microsoft SQL Server MVP
> Senior Database Administrator
> Careerbuilder.com
> I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
> www.sqlpass.org
> "barbara" <barbara_2003@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5cd01256.0409100354.23e1b6a4@.posting.google.c om...
> news:<2qd1hrFueik4U1@.uni-berlin.de>...
> need a
> clustered
> both
> have
> for
> the
> virtual
> on
> If
> without